King Salmon in....Chile???

[Robbo]

Check out the gagger 'nooks they're starting to catch down in Chile. I bet we see some new world records come out of there in the next 10 years

chile_king_salmon2.jpg (80.67 KiB) Viewed 9527 times

chile_king_salmon.jpg (84.87 KiB) Viewed 9527 times

[Mingo]

Salmon farm escapees I assume? I heard they also have stocked stream 'bows that decided to start their own steelhead club...and now several rivers have decent runs. Trippy to think you can catch a king and a golden dorado in the a couple of the same countries down there now...............

[Salmonhawk]

Is their an Outdoor Line trip in our future?

[Smalma]

Just another illustration that in absence of selection against a large size Chinook want to be a BIG fish.

These (as well as those in Argentine) are naturalized net pen (hatchery fish) and it has not taken very long for them to establish a population with large/old fish. Those fish are an example of what we would see in many of our Puget Sound rivers if we opt to catch our fish as maturing adults rather than insisting on fishing them on their feeding grounds.

Pretty clear that we as anglers do not value having large/old Chinook enough to limit our own fishing.

Tight lines
Curt

[Robbo]

I'm not sure that I totally agree with you Curt. Yes, it doesn't help that we as anglers catch and keep the "Big One", but I just don't think that our impact measures up to commercial harvest of these fish. I work alongside hundreds of highliner trollers and purse seiners in SE Alaska and that is but one gauntlet that the fish have to pass thru on their journey south. The same scenario takes place on WCVI and here in Washington. We just aren't as efficient at whacking these fish as those guys are.

[cobble cruiser]

Those kingers have a strikingly similiar resemblance to the Harrison/ Vedder River stock of white springs I must say!

[Smalma]

Robbo -
For Chinook salmon the major reason we are seeing smaller fish today than say 50 or 100 years ago is the age selective fishing that has taken place on many stocks. While the anglers high grading the fish they keep does exert selection against the large fish most severe of that selection does not occur as those fish are migrating towards their spawning streams but in the years prior to them reach maturity - ie fishing on immature fish on their feeding grounds. Harvesting fish one or more years prior to their reaching maturity has to greatly reduce the average age of the spawners which of course means the next generation will have a younger age. This is further compounded by fisheries that also select against the fastest growning fish. As you alluded to that selection by anglers high grading their catch or in fisheries with minimum size limits it often will be the case that the fastest growing fish will be harvested at a higher rate than those with slower rates. The end result is exactly what we seem to have today - fish that are both younger and slowing growing.

While I'm sure there are exceptions generally the majority of thesize selection fishing mortality of those feeding/immature Chinook is by hook and line fisheries - both troll and recreational fishing. The only way to reverse that process is to avoid fishing on those feeding grounds. That of course means that most of our most productive fishing grounds would be off limits - thus my comments about us not willing to pay the price to have larger fish.

Tight lines
Curt

[Robbo]

Are you referring to our blackmouth fisheries and areas like Southeast Alaska (Fairweather Grounds) and WCVI? Thanks for the input Smalma...much appreciated

[Smalma]

Robbo -
Yes what we are talking about are those blackmouth areas, which of course is really anywhere there are immature Chinook that actively feeding. The worst of the areas might be those that are producing those exceptional 30 or even 40 # blackmouth.

As you know Chinook migrate long distances with Washington fish going to SE Alaska and beyound and while doing so are feeding which of course means that they end experiencing some fishing mortality. That fishing on mixed age classes of fish have significant selection from older larger fish.

Frist those marine areas typically have minimum size limits; say 24 inches. Because individual grow at different rates the very fastest growing individual reach the legal threshold for harvest sooner than its slower growing cousins. That means it is exposed to potential of harvest/fishing mortality longer. That of course means the fast growing fish are less likely to survive and pass on its genes to the next generation.

Second as you mentioned when fish is good we anglers almost always will opt to keep the larger fish while releasing the smaller fish. That is another selection against the best fish - either the fastest growing or oldest fish.

And finally even a low level fishery and significantly alter the potential age structure of the spawning populatiuon post fishing. Just as an example lets assume that we have hypothical Chinook population that in lack of any fishing would have 1,000 3 year spawners, 1,000 4 year spawners, 1,000 5 year old spawners and 1,000 at 6 year of age. Further let's assume that 10% of the population is caught every year. The result wouild be instead of 4,000 spawners there would be only 3,095 spawners and more importantly instead of equal numbers of 3 year olds and 6 years old there would now be 900 three year olds and only 656 six years old. It would not take very many generations to see significant changes in the population age structure. The rate of that change increases with increased fishing rates.

The good news as illustrated by those Chilean Chinook is that Chinook populations generally what to have diverse age structure including significant numbers of old/large fish as shown in those photos. If we want to see those fish again we know where to look.

In a related matter the Elwha clearly historically had the type of habitat that selected for extremely large Chinook - fish more than 100 pounds. However even once those fish are allowed access to the habitat following the removal of the dams we will not see those fish. Why because even though the habitat is selecting for those big fish the ocean fisheries at the same time is selecting for younger/smaller fish. The likely result is that the result wild population say 25 years from now may well have larger individuals than say some of the interior sound rivers they likely will not be anything close to once was.

Tight lines
Curt

[Salmonhawk]

Ugh!! So...no fishing so we can catch larger fish? I would agree with Robbo on the commercial catch issue, aren't they harvesting many more fish than us out in the ocean and in SE Alaska and Puget Sound as the fish are returning? There is so much to these salmon issue that it is a full time job just to keep up.